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[03:26] [Dark_Shikari] questions
[03:27] [Dark_Shikari] what are the restrictions that the apple TV has?
[03:27] [Dark_Shikari] other than "Main profile, no CABAC, no weightp, VBV 10k/10k"
[03:27] [Rodeo] well, actually, even the official ATV preset is now High profile
[03:27] [Dark_Shikari] oh really
[03:27] [Rodeo] yes, it uses 8x8dct
[03:27] [Dark_Shikari] can it handle b-pyramid?
[03:27] [Rodeo] but no cabac, no weightb, no weightp
[03:28] [Rodeo] not sure
[03:28] [Rodeo] well, it used to be no, but IIRC dynaflash did a test recently and it worked
[03:28] [Dark_Shikari] ok
[03:28] [Dark_Shikari] I'm adding --device to x264
[03:28] [Rodeo] how amny devices are you going to support?
[03:28] [Rodeo] many*
[03:29] [Dark_Shikari] a lot
[03:29] [Dark_Shikari] ps3, xbox 360, blu-ray, appletv
[03:29] [Dark_Shikari] divx hd
[03:29] [Dark_Shikari] psp, ipod, iphone
[03:29] [Dark_Shikari] iphone 3gs
[03:29] [Dark_Shikari] maybe android
[03:30] [Rodeo] and for the apps that support x264 presets (and use libx264), do you expect them to support the new devices constraints as well?
[03:32] [Dark_Shikari] I eventually plan to move this into libx264
[03:32] [Rodeo] hmm
[03:32] [Rodeo] and how will this be handled?
[03:33] [Rodeo] let me clarify my question
[03:33] [Dark_Shikari] presets will be handled as:
[03:33] [Dark_Shikari] x264_param_default( param, PRESET NAME, TUNE NAME )
[03:33] [Dark_Shikari] profiles/devices will be handled as:
[03:33] [Dark_Shikari] x264_apply_device_restrictions( param, DEVICE NAME )
[03:33] [Dark_Shikari] and similar
[03:33] [Rodeo] OK
[03:34] [Rodeo] but there won't be a function that does the opposite of x164_param_parse?
[03:34] [Dark_Shikari] you mean print the current params?
[03:34] [Rodeo] yes
[03:34] [Dark_Shikari] maybe
[03:35] [Rodeo] jbrjake would prefer if the preset system was interactive
[03:35] [Rodeo] i.e. see how the options chnage as you chnage the preset, tune, etc.
[03:35] [Dark_Shikari] I agree, good idea.
[03:36] [Dark_Shikari] more questions
[03:36] [Dark_Shikari] will the atv play a 60fps file if it's really low res or something?
[03:36] [Rodeo] I don't think so
[03:36] [Rodeo] it's limited to 30.00 fps
[03:37] [Rodeo] (IIRC)
[03:37] [Rodeo] it's an artificial limit imposed by iTunes
[03:37] [Dark_Shikari] ok
[03:37] [Dark_Shikari] and what do we say is the maximum res for 30fps video?
[03:38] [Dark_Shikari] 960*540 or similar?
[03:38] [Rodeo] HandBrake limits it to 960 x 544
[03:38] [Rodeo] which I suppose is the max iTunes will let you sync
[03:38] [Dark_Shikari] at 720p?
[03:38] [Dark_Shikari] wait, itunes will only sync 720p at 25fps or below?
[03:38] [Dark_Shikari] and above that, you have to use 960x544?
[03:38] [Dark_Shikari] how sure are we of this?
[03:39] [Rodeo] pretty sure
[03:39] [Dark_Shikari] and do we know what the max bitrate is?
[03:39] [Dark_Shikari] I thought 960x544 was an arbitrary limitation
[03:39] [Dark_Shikari] because 720p lagged
[03:39] [Rodeo] no, it's an iTunes limitation
[03:40] [Rodeo] though I'm by no means the expert on this (don't have an ATV - or a TV for that matter)
[03:40] [Dark_Shikari] and will it work if, say, width is smaller but height is larger?
[03:40] [Rodeo] not sure, you'd have to ask dynaflash or another ATV user
[03:40] [Dark_Shikari] hmm, I guess I'll wait
[03:47] [Dark_Shikari] http://pastebin.com/m422a5c73
[03:47] [Dark_Shikari] here's my appletv preset
[03:48] [Rodeo] no bframes?
[03:48] [Dark_Shikari] oh, oops
[03:48] [Dark_Shikari] fixed.
[03:48] [Dark_Shikari] does it have any limit on bframes?
[03:48] [Dark_Shikari] can it do 16?
[03:48] [Dark_Shikari] I'd assume it can unless said otherwise
[03:48] [Dark_Shikari] but... it's the appletv
[03:48] [Rodeo] I think the devs limited it to 6 in the old preset (which used b-adapt 1)
[03:49] [Dark_Shikari] I won't
[03:49] [Rodeo] supposedly because "the AppleTV is crippled"
[03:49] [Dark_Shikari] lol
[03:50] [j45] current hb atv preset cabac=0:ref=2:me=umh:b-adapt=2:weightb=0:trellis=0:weightp=0
[03:51] [Dark_Shikari] j45: does it have any actual limits on refs?
[03:51] [j45] as i understand it, 720p works below at 24fps
[03:51] [j45] i don't recall anyone mentioning it, but I don't have one
[03:51] [Dark_Shikari] what about 25?
[03:51] [Dark_Shikari] it was being tested at 25 earlier
[03:52] [j45] not sure, it thought it was limited to 24
[03:52] [Rodeo] yes, it support 720p at 25 fps
[03:52] [Rodeo] I've been reading thsi channel long enough to be sure of that
[03:53] [Dark_Shikari] we're talking about apple product compatibility in #x264
[03:53] [Dark_Shikari] I suggest you drop by
[03:53] [Dark_Shikari] specifically iphone, itouch, ipod
[03:55] [j45] [06:26] [dynaflash] atv can only play 720p at up to 25 fps
[03:55] [j45] http://handbrake.fr/irclogs/handbrake/handbrake20090325_pg1.html
[04:59] [Rodeo] note: encoding quite a few clips to test my 3gs right now
[05:00] [Rodeo] using point 2 point to encode a 13-second portion of Planet Earth
[05:00] [Rodeo] and noticed an issue with audio and point 2 point
[05:00] [Dark_Shikari] we're trying to figure out ref limitations vs resolution
[05:00] [Rodeo] I'm using frame-based encoding (from frame 960 to 1280)
[05:00] [j45] Rodeo: what's the symptom?
[05:01] [Rodeo] and the video comes out 13 seconds like it should, but if I add audio it's 15 seconds
[05:01] [Rodeo] with 2 second at the end where there is audio over a still frame
[05:02] [j45] hmmm, now that i'm thinking about it, i think i know why that happens
[05:03] [Rodeo] need a log?
[05:03] [j45] i don't know where to stop the audio until I've found the stop point for the video
[05:03] [j45] and if the audio is being processed a little ahead of the video, some extra audio will seep through
[05:03] [j45] should only be an issue with frame based p-to-p
[05:04] [Rodeo] OK
[05:04] [j45] it'll take some thought to figure a fix
[05:05] [j45] do me a favor and post in the bugs forum so it doesn't get forgotten?
[05:05] [Rodeo] I'm testing on 2 fronts and it's 5 AM here
[05:05] [Rodeo] :-)
[05:07] [j45] didn't realize you were europe
[05:08] [Rodeo] FRance
[05:08] [Rodeo] France*
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[05:22] [dynaflash] Darke_Shikari: and iTunes will *not* transfer a 29.976 movie to an atv at 720p
[05:22] [dynaflash] has to be 540p
[05:22] [dynaflash] 720p is only up to 25 fps
[05:23] [Dark_Shikari] 540p or 544p?
[05:23] [dynaflash] well, it will do 544
[05:23] [Dark_Shikari] is 960x544 the actual limit?
[05:23] [Dark_Shikari] or did you come up with that arbitrarily?
[05:23] [dynaflash] but its listed at 540
[05:23] [Dark_Shikari] ok
[05:24] [Dark_Shikari] so then, what about reference frame limits on iphone 3gs, iphone 3g, and apple tv?
[05:24] [dynaflash] its like cabac, it will transfer it even. but its not in the spec
[05:24] [Dark_Shikari] I know ipod is 6
[05:24] [dynaflash] and acdtually plays it fine
[05:24] [dynaflash] I have tested up to 9
[05:24] [dynaflash] for ref
[05:24] [Dark_Shikari] on what
[05:24] [Rodeo] my iPhone 3GS will play the birds part of the Planet Earth clip: 720 x 576, 12 refs, 16 bframes, rf 18 (8 Mbps average)
[05:24] [dynaflash] atv
[05:24] [Dark_Shikari] can you test ref 16 for me?
[05:24] [Dark_Shikari] just to test
[05:24] [dynaflash] yep
[05:26] [dynaflash] 7 minutes
[05:26] *** dynaflash goes to look over the preset pastebin
[05:28] [dynaflash] oh, and average bitrate against an atv is not clear
[05:29] [Dark_Shikari] do we know anything about refs on iphone 3g or 3gs?
[05:29] [dynaflash] ... meaning there are two issues. First and foremost is will itunes let it even transfer. Second is does it play it *well* both synced and streamed.
[05:29] [Rodeo] well, I had no luck with anything higher than 12 on my 3gs
[05:30] [Rodeo] currently gathering some data for j45
[05:30] [Rodeo] when I0m done I'll try 13 etc. again just to be sure
[05:30] [Dark_Shikari] dynaflash: here's a rough draft so far
[05:30] [Dark_Shikari] http://pastebin.com/m37f9bf28
[05:30] [Dark_Shikari] I decided to stop and add resizing to x264 first
[05:36] [dynaflash] realize as well that > 30 fps regardless of anything will not transfer to an atv
[05:36] [Dark_Shikari] yes
[05:36] [Dark_Shikari] read the code
[05:36] [dynaflash] it is for right now a hard limit
[05:36] [dynaflash] I did, just reiterating
[05:41] [Rodeo] also note that anything above level 3.0 will not sync to any iPod or iPhone via iTunes
[05:41] [Dark_Shikari] even 3gs?
[05:41] [Rodeo] yep
[05:42] [Rodeo] that's why I have to add level=30 to my x264 options to sync refs > 6
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[05:42] [dynaflash] tricking itunes can be a black art from time to time
[05:43] [Rodeo] weird, it looks like 13 refs now works
[05:43] [dynaflash] fwiw, I have luck now with weightb on sources that made atv 2.4 choke using weightb, but still do not recommend it's use in any app endorsed preset.
[05:44] [Rodeo] tested with 720p now?
[05:44] [dynaflash] just a note
[05:44] [dynaflash] ?
[05:44] [Rodeo] weightb?
[05:45] [dynaflash] no tested on dvd sources that made the 0.9.3 preset stutter with atv 2.4
[05:45] [Rodeo] would be interesting to test on 720p encodes
[05:45] [Rodeo] might make a difference
[05:46] [dynaflash] hmm, maybe
[05:46] [dynaflash] I can try a birds clip
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[05:47] [j45] Rodeo: so there's a secondary problem of it hanging at the end?
[05:47] [Rodeo] yes, but that one doesn't happen with all setting combinations
[05:48] [Rodeo] very weird
[05:48] [Rodeo] I wish I could do more testing but I switched back to iPhone testing
[05:48] [j45] ok, i'll try to reproduce using your settings
[05:48] [Rodeo] you know where to get the source, right?
[05:49] [Rodeo] just in case
[05:49] [j45] don't sweat it. i won't have much time to look at it till late next week
[05:49] [Rodeo] note that HB stays a while on 100.00% even when there is no audio, but it completes
[05:50] [dynaflash] ref 16 syncs to atv
[05:50] [j45] i've never gone looking for it birds. will a google search find it for me?
[05:52] [dynaflash] j45: pm
[05:55] [dynaflash] Dark_Shikari: [22:25:48] + options: cabac=0:ref=16:me=umh:b-adapt=2:weightb=0:weightp=0
[05:55] [dynaflash] syncs and plays on atv
[05:56] [Rodeo] no
[05:56] [Rodeo] DS hosts it
[05:56] [j45] got it
[05:56] [Rodeo] it's a clip from planet earth
[05:56] [Dark_Shikari] dynaflash: nice.
[05:57] [Dark_Shikari] j45: http://mirror05.x264.nl/Dark/x264clips/
[06:08] [dynaflash] j45
[06:08] [j45] ?
[06:09] [dynaflash] any consensus on updating to x264 head ?
[06:09] [Rodeo] dynaflash: should work
[06:09] [j45] from the sound of it, it is safe to do. we just need to update those other things in order to use it's new dts calculation feature
[06:10] [dynaflash] so , .... do it ?
[06:10] [j45] sure
[06:13] [CIA-23] dynaflash * r3075 contrib/x264/module.defs:
[06:13] [CIA-23] x264 bump to r1391-3d0f110
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